Hi Andy,

While catching up on some of your columns that I missed over the summer, I noticed you’re your comments about the Roman Catholic Church’s “Protecting God's Children” training program; in particular, this statement: 

"…The (R.C.) church powers-that-be do need to understand that Cub Scout camping is not like Boy Scout camping, where a few adults and a whole bunch of minors go off into the woods together.  Cub Scout camping is family camping—No boy is without one or both of his own parents, at all times.  Therefore, neither the church nor anyone else can ‘demand’ that a parent take a course to protect his or her own son!  This sort of training pertains only to situations in which the parent isn't present, and that doesn’t happen, ever, with Cub Scout family camping.  If you can make this point crystal clear, perhaps you can turn some heads.  If not, well, spend an evening watching a video…”

I’m a Pack Trainer for a Cub Scout pack in a Roman Catholic church and have also been an ASM with a similarly-sponsored troop, and I serve on our diocese’s Scouting committee.  In short, I’ve been helping resolve “Protecting God's Children” issues since the program was introduced in our diocese.  The purpose of my writing isn't to disagree or take exception with what you said; only to share what I know and possibly add to your knowledge on this subject.  

Unlike Youth Protection, the Protecting God's Children program is not a uniform national program.  The actual content that a particular diocese chooses to adopt and use may vary from other dioceses. Two of the more common program content providers are Virtus and Safe Environment Program; though there are others.  There also is no guarantee of reciprocity: If you completed Virtus, let’s say, and then relocate to another diocese that uses a different program, that new diocese may very well choose to not recognize the training you’ve already completed and require you to complete their own training

In our diocese, the Protecting God's Children rules are such that in our pack we must verify that every parent who intends to camp overnight has completed PGC.  Parents who haven’t completed the training simply are not permitted to camp overnight.  No exceptions. Unfortunately, if because of this stipulation a parent can’t camp, that usually means his or her son can't camp either, unless the other parent has the PGC training and can step in.  On a similar note, our Webelos II den was recently invited to camp overnight with a local troop that’s not a Roman Catholic church-sponsored unit, but since we had no knowledge of the leaders or parents of this troop, or their training, our boys were not permitted to camp with them, even though their own parents had PGC training.  For those boys who are working toward their Arrow of Light and intend to go on to be Boy Scouts, we have had to reach out to Catholic troops in our area where their leaders have completed PGC.  Even den meetings can be a problem for us, when they’re held in the home of a non-PGC-trained Den Leader.  We also have to advise our Den Leaders that anyone over 18 who may be present in the home (neighbors, grandparents, older children, etc.) either have to have PGC or they cannot be present at the den meeting.  

However, in a neighboring diocese, it could be entirely different—stricter, or more lenient! I’ve also found that two diocese using the same program may sometimes interpret and apply what appears to be similar policies slightly differently, so Scouters and Scout families need to know and follow whatever PGC guidelines are in place in their own diocese.

If you or your readers need additional information, here is a link to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website and a 2007 report that identifies over 100 different PGC programs currently in use: http://usccb.org/ocyp/sepsbydiocese2007.pdf

The beauty of your column on Scouting issues and policies is that the Q&A’s pretty much always apply to everyone regardless of their council.  PGC requirements fall on the "other side of the house": the chartering organization.  For most Catholic units the hierarchy is the unit, the chartering organization, the parish, and the diocese.  So while I tried to share some practical examples of how PGC works in real life in our diocese; these examples may or may not be good examples in another diocese and the last thing I would want to do is mislead leaders or adults involved with a Catholic scouting unit in some other diocese. (L.G.)

Information like this is extremely valuable, and I appreciate the time you took to put your thoughts and experiences down on paper and send them to me!  Here’s hoping my readers can gain some further insights!

Dear Andy,

In your October 18^th column, you said that the Commissioner’s Arrowhead Honor can be earned only once.  I’m going to disagree about the Arrowhead Honor (“AH”).  If you look at the requirements for the Commissioner Key, under “performance,” it states: "Earn the AH for your position."  If you were at one time a Unit Commissioner (and earned the AH then), but then became, let’s say, a Roundtable Commissioner, you couldn’t earn the Commissioner Key as a RTC until you’d earned the AH for that position. This situation not only allows one to earn more than one AH, but actually requires one to do so! (Doug Parker, Gulf Coast Council, FL)

I'm wrong - You're right!  I'll take twenty lashes with a wet lanyard!

If we've earned the Arrowhead Honor as a Unit Commissioner, then we remove it from our uniform if we change to ADC or DC or RTC or ACC or CC, and we re-earn it for whichever new Commissioner position we have taken on, re-sewing it once earned.  This is what permits us to wear the AH for the precise Commissioner position we currently hold.  Thanks for your sharp eyes, and for being the catalyst to my own further research!  (Dang!  You'd think I'd know that one!  That’s what I get for not double-checking myself!)

Dear Andy,

I’m a Bear Cub Scout and I’d like to do Achievement 2—the Award of Faith for the Sikh religion. I don’t see this emblem in my Cub Scout Bear Handbook. Do you know how I can earn this emblem? (Name Withheld, Northern Star Council, MN)

Thank you for finding me, and for writing to me.  Congratulations on being a Bear Cub Scout!  The Sikh religion is admirable, and I hope you continue along this pathway throughout your life!  I know just a little bit... Do you have The Five K's, or does that come later, as you get a little older?

Now, to your question... The Boy Scouts don't actually have "religious awards"!  No, I don't mean to confuse you!  They are in your Cub Scout book, but they are not actual parts of Scouting.  Instead, Scouting recognizes and honors the programs of all faiths, and encourages boys like you to earn the religious award for your faith.  But not all faiths have these. I can't find one for Sikh or Sikhism.  But that doesn't mean there isn't one!  I also checked P.R.A.Y. (Programs of Religious Activities with Youth - http://www.praypub.org/main_frameset.htm - and 1-800-933-7729) and I didn’t find anything there, either!  But that still doesn’t mean that you can’t do this – It just may take a little more work to find out!  

Please ask your parents to inquire of a guru or friend who may be knowledgeable for this.  I hope they can find some good news for you!

A while ago, a very good question about how to establish rapprochement between “trail signs” (used to be a rank requirement) and “Leave No Trace.” For an answer, I reached out to Scott Anderson, a LNT Master Instructor and member of the BSA national task force on LNT, who had these excellent insights to share…

First, permanent trail signs or markings are the domain of the governing land management organization where you happen to be hiking or camping, and shouldn’t be altered or added to in any way without direct consent of that organization. (The need for changes and additions are frequently a hot topic with user groups, many of which are siding with a "less is more" point-of-view.)

The very first principle of Leave No Trace, Plan Ahead, and Prepare, teaches us that we should actually have no need for temporary trail signs or markings so long as we:

- Know our outdoor skills;

- Are in appropriate physical condition for the selected activity;

- Have a trail guide, map, compass, and know how to use these;

- Are equipped for the weather and possible emergencies;

- Have communicated with the land management organization to identify the trail conditions, expected water sources and shortages, and any other unknown trail hazards;

- Have shared our written trail and travel plan with a least one responsible person at home.

If we’ve done these things, then temporary trail signs or markings should only be needed in an emergency situation.

Of course, Scouts should only practice marking a trail with items found dead and on the ground. Arranged rock piles, downed wood, or drawings on the trail are options that can be demonstrated and taught, and afterwards all items should be returned to where they were found and the trail returned to its original state.

Only in an actual emergency situation might we consider folding, bending, or cutting living trees or other plants, and even then we must question if this is truly necessary. The same is true with permanently marking or scratching inorganic material.

(Andy’s interjection: Rocks – the classic small “rock piles” – 3-2-1 – to show direction of travel – may harm the least and are the most easily returned to their natural setting by the follower as he or she navigates the trail of the person(s) ahead.)

We don’t want to stop doing Scouting. We simply want to consider our impacts when doing activities in the out-of-doors. Most of the time with a little bit of consideration we can find ways to do everything we want or need to do in our program that will greatly reduce the potential environmental and social impacts. Scouting is getting better and we are producing better and better “citizens of the out-of-doors” every day! (Scott Anderson, Patriots’ Path Council & BSA National Council)

Dear Andy,

It would sure be helpful if all of the BSA publications were available freely on the web, like at the USSSP website.  After all, it doesn't cost anything to distribute them via the web, and it’s the downloader’s paper and ink!  Why should we volunteers have to pay for old technology like printing and mailing or shipping when it just isn't needed anymore? (Name & Council Withheld)

Well let’s start here: The U.S. Scouting Service Project websites aren’t “official BSA” and the BSA retains the rights to its publications, so neither we nor any other independent Scouting-oriented website can reproduce these without express permission of the BSA.  But there’s more… 

A lot of people assume that if you hang something on web, somehow the costs associated with creating that publication in the first place will just go away.  Nope… Doesn’t happen that way!  In most cases, the bulk of costs in producing a pamphlet, booklet, or manual have nothing at all to do with the actual printing.  We’re talking about all the elements that go into creating the work itself, from the original research through the writing, editing, and proofing; graphic design and layout, legal review, and the list goes on… These costs can be substantial!

If “publication” is via web downloads, there’s virtually no way to recoup the costs I’ve just listed without drawing funds from somewhere else.  Profit-making organizations can take revenues from one hat and put some of them into the expenses in another hat; not so many not-for-profit organizations like the BSA.  In fact, many NFP organizations’ publications have to be self-sufficient (i.e., they have to generate enough revenues to cover the costs that went into creating them) or they just can’t even get written! This means that, often, the best way to assure that costs will be covered is to charge a fair price for the publication.  That's the general rule. Sometimes there’s a tradeoff, as when the need to reach a larger audience is so important that costs will be absorbed to make it happen.  Or, a for-profit sponsor will be found, who’s willing to pick up some or all of the costs.

Then, of course, there absolutely are publications available at the BSA website that can be downloaded freely.  The Guide to Safe Scouting comes immediately to mind.

The BSA is one organization that values the comments of its volunteer Scouters, and takes feedback seriously.  So, if you believe that a particular publication needs to be free, in order to reach a particular audience, then definitely make the effort to put your thoughts in writing and send your letter to the Irving, Texas national office!

Dear Andy,

I’ve heard there’s an abbreviation an Eagle Scout can put after his name (just as a person with a doctoral degree would--for example, Jon Doe, Ph.D.).  Is there, in fact, an abbreviation an Eagle Scout can put after his name, to denote that he earned the Eagle Scout rank? Are there any other such abbreviations in Scouting? (James Alex Larounis, Eagle Scout, Class of 2006, Bucks County Council, PA)

No, I've never heard of what you've described...ever.  The only thing that's been introduced over the past bunch of years is the "Class" pretension, as in "Eagle Class of '07" or "Eagle Class of '76" and so on, as if it's a matriculating class of some sort.  While this has been around for decades, I've not seen or heard of anything else.

Hi Andy,

This is just to close the loop with you on my question last summer about taking OA ordeals outside of your home lodge.  It seems that there’s a national policy about it, that, except for religious reasons preventing you from taking an ordeal on a given weekend, you must take it with your home lodge.  A lot of this has to do with record keeping, payment of lodge dues, etc.  This is in the OA Guide for Officers and Advisors.  So, I ended up driving my son from the camp he was staffing at to another camp so he could take his ordeal. It meant a lot to him, so it was worth it.  Thanks for your help this summer and I wanted to pass this on if the question comes up again. (Jeff Kotz, ASM, Blackhawk Area Council, IL)

Thanks!  If you continued to read my columns, you'll remember that several sharp-eyed OA folks wrote in to say what you're saying here!  I'm very glad you pursued the course of action you chose, and I do remember that it was no small drive! Congratulations to your son!  Nice goin’ Dad!

Hi Andy,

I'm a scout and I’d like to know what age or rank in Scouts I have to be to get certain merit badges. (Name Withheld, Central New Jersey Council)

So long as you're a Boy Scout, you can be any age and any rank, or even not even Tenderfoot!  Any Scout can work on any merit badge any time he wants to.  Just follow page 187 in your handbook, get that "Blue Card" and a counselor's name from your Scoutmaster, and go meet with that counselor to get started!

Dear Andy,

I'm sitting here wondering what, exactly, the Eagle rank means. It has a great reputation, but I'm wondering why. I have to sign the Eagle application as the troop’s Committee Chair. My opinion differs from the Scoutmaster on what constitutes living by the Boy Scout Oath and Law. Leadership, as opposed to parroting the words being whispered in the boys' ears, seems basic to me, but because the boys are likable, or even if they're not, I'm being told I need to sign my approval. I seem to have very little role in this process and I'm dismayed at what the public perceives an Eagle Scout to be and how much less the reality actually is. I have no flexibility other than voicing my concerns. I like these boys. They’re mostly good boys. But I wouldn't trust them to walk my dog around the block, much less handle a semi-complex project. Yet I'm signing off that they’re Eagle material.

My issue has come to a head because I'm waiting for a boy to bring me his project write-up for review. I don't care that it's nearly ten o’clock at night the day before he needs to turn it in. What I agonize over is the fact that he has no respect for any of his leaders and doesn't care who knows it. The Scoutmaster admonishes him, but signs off his Oath and Law requirement, which pretty much makes me a rubber stamp. It makes me wonder if the Eagle rank actually has any value. I feel like I've failed the troop and the boys by not being a better leader by my own example and not finding the right people to lead the troop.  I don't think I should be passing the buck to the district, especially because I don't trust this Boy Scout to give honest answers. What is my responsibility and duty in a situation like this? (Name & Council Withheld)

As a Committee Chair who has taken his regimen of necessary training and done his reading up on the BSA program and his role in it, you certainly must have some idea as to what the Eagle rank actually does mean. So, perhaps what you're experiencing at the moment is more a conflict between your understanding of Eagle Scout and what you're presently seeing, as embodied by one or two young men at the moment, possibly coupled with some frustration over the narrow nature of a Committee Chair's role with regard to rank advancement in general and the terminal Boy Scout rank in particular.  Plus, I’m guessing you were instrumental in selecting the Scoutmaster of this troop, and now you don’t like how he’s handling things and resent, possibly, the fact that you can’t “overrule” him when it comes to Scout advancement.

Advancement is, after all, a method of Scouting and hardly a goal in itself. Advancement largely administered through the Scoutmaster with some supportive assistance from the troop advancement chair (or, less formally, advancement person). 

The Committee Chair's responsibilities have virtually nothing whatsoever to do with the Scouts as individuals, but a great deal to do with the troop as a whole.  Perhaps you'd prefer to change jobs the next time the troop's charter rolls around, if the advancement slot on the committee is available. Or, you may wish to add to your contribution to the troop by being the Eagle Advisor to the Life Scouts of the troop—Not an "official" position, but many troops have committee members serving in this capacity for the express purpose of guiding these teenaged "ships" of ours through the curves and currents and dangerous waters of their final steps to Eagle.  Think it over.

As for the project write-up that you're waiting for, obviously you agreed to a 10 PM meeting or this wouldn't be happening.  If you had misgivings about this but didn't voice them, it's presently a bit too late to blame the Scout, I'm afraid.  Moreover, I'm not clear at all how this particular Scout shows his alleged disrespect to you and other leaders in the troop, and I don't know what you mean by "(he) doesn't care who knows it"—without concretes there's simply nothing to go on, except that what he's been taught by his parents will always dominate a boy or young man's response to adults, and I've learned over many years of experience that it's almost always unfair to blame the child for what he's been taught by his own parents. Scouting can’t "fix" an entire human being.  It's not designed to do that.  You are not trained to do that. Neither is the Scoutmaster or any other volunteer associated with the troop.

You seem to have "trust issues" as they're called.  Why would you fail to trust a teenaged Boy Scout of any rank to “walk your dog around the block”? (We're assuming, of course, that the Scout selected would know how to handle canine pets, because we also know that one should never entrust a family pet to anyone who isn’t knowledgeable in this area, regardless of age or gender.)

So, finally, we turn to signatures...

Actually, you only sign one time for an Eagle candidate (which we'll get to shortly); it is not necessary that the Committee Chair sign the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook: Any member of the troop committee may do this and in many troops this is logically done by the troop advancement chair.  So, to begin with, the fact that you're signing it instead of your advancement person is relatively unusual.  However, since you are, let's review what you're signing off on: You're signing that the workbook is complete up to this point in that it has answered the questions (a) what is the project, (b) who will benefit, (c) how will they benefit, (d) who is the recipient's contact person, and (e) what are the details (i.e., what does the work-plan, timetable, budget, and materiel source) look like?  That's it. You're not passing judgment on anything else here.

The one place where your signature will be needed is on the actual rank application.  Your signature is not perfunctory.  You are attesting that everything up to your signature line is correct: All dates, all prior ranks, all merit badges and their dates, all reference names and contact information, and all dates of Eagle requirements 1, 4, 5, and 6, which the Scoutmaster will confirm for you.  If you do truly believe that you cannot approve the Scout for advancement to Eagle Scout, then don't sign the application.  You have that right.  The Scout, of course, has the right to appeal this and proceed to a board of review absent your signature, and any wise district or council representative will exclude you from the board of review because you will likely create a "hung jury"—the vote of the board must be unanimous; however, if you're walking in pre-prejudiced against the Scout, this is unfair.  You do, however, have the right to convey to the board members (orally at the convening; not via email or letter) your misgivings and they will pursue a line of questioning to delve further into this during the conversation itself.

Well, there you have it, or most of it, anyway.  I'm sorry this turned out to be so long; I didn't have the time to write a shorter answer.

Hi Andy,

If a Scout leaves a troop for any reason and joins another troop, does the former troop give the Scout all of his “blue cards” and individual history report to take with him, or do we give it to the new troop? (Our Scoutmaster isn’t allowing any of these Scouts their own blue cards, individual history reports, or merit badges earned but not presented, and he’s refusing their parents, as well.)

Also, we have another Scout who wants to transfer to a Venturing crew, but he still owes the troop a lot of money from his Philmont trek this past summer. I've told the parents that, ethically and morally, he should reimburse the troop for those expenses (how this came about is another story).  Because of this, the Scoutmaster’s told me that he won’t sign the transfer form to allow this Scout to move his primary registration to the crew. 

(As a side note, the Scoutmaster’s angry with the Crew Advisor for starting it in the first place and also for “taking” the older Scouts away from the troop—The Scouts were bored and now they’re very excited about the opportunities in the crew.)

The Scoutmaster reads your column quite often and will certainly know that I’ve asked these questions.  We’ve had discussions about these problems, but to no avail. (Name & Council Withheld)

Every Scout is ultimately responsible for his own advancement record-keeping, and the advancement process makes this easy for him to do.  Let's begin with rank requirements and advancements.  He keeps these essential records in his Boy Scout Handbook, on pages 438 through 449.  He also retains the signed rank cards presented to him when he receives the cloth rank badges.  For merit badges, he always keeps the "applicant" portion of the "Blue Card," plus, he keeps the signed merit badge card that's presented to him when he receives the cloth badge.

Any troop that's not making sure that all Scouts can retain these important records is doing the Scouts a disservice and needs to instantly change its ways and start doing things correctly.

Regarding transfers in general, although there's a form (No.28-401L) for transferring between units, with a place for the unit leader to sign, any unit that thinks that, by refusing to sign this form, they can prevent a Scout from changing troops is living in some fairytale land.  And any Scout who lets a troop leader try to hang him up by not signing has just obtained a 100% legitimate reason for getting out of that troop.

I absolutely appreciate the money in arrears problem; however, holding the Scout hostage is hardly the Scout-like or even smart way to go.  The Philmont trip had to have happened at least six to seven months ago, and obviously the money owed should have been collected well before that—probably at least eight months ago.  So this has obviously been mishandled in some manner for some significant length of time.  Since the Scout is a minor, he's legally not responsible for the debt; his parents are, and it’s from them that you need to seek restitution.  As for their arrangement with their son, leave that alone because it's not your business.  The parents owe the troop this money and it's high time someone goes after it—It's no small amount.

Scouts vote with their feet.  If the troop they're in isn't giving them what their handbook promised, they're going to walk away.  That's their right. It's our job to see that they don't, not by legislating it (take a look at our federal government if you think that’s gonna work!) but by delivering an exciting, top-notch program of adventure, fun, team-building, and excitement!

Dear Andy,

If a Boy Scout would like to take a merit badge, and he goes to his Scoutmaster for a blue card, does the Scoutmaster have the right or authority to tell him that he can't take a certain merit badge because he’s “not mature enough”?

The reason I am asking has to do with my son, currently a Webelos, who is an overachiever. Since becoming a Webelos in June, he has “only” earned 9 activity badges, and is upset about not having them all. I am doing everything in my power to slow him down a bit with the activity badges, by finding other awards for him to work on to keep him busy. He is so used to me signing off in the book that he wants me sign him off as soon as he finishes (since I’m the Webelos Den Leader), and I’m trying to transition him to the world of Boy Scouting by not signing him off all the time, and trying to get him to go to the other Webelos Den Leaders in our den. (We have three!)

I’m concerned that he’ll pick a troop where the Scoutmaster won't let him work on certain merit badges, because he's "not ready," and then he’ll get bored and want to quit.

I’ve talked about my son's overachieving with a few Scoutmasters, and they feel that I should let him cross over as soon as he meets the Boy Scout joining requirements (for him, it will be in August before 5th grade starts, provided he has his Arrow of Light—he’ll be 10-1/2). I feel that he may be ready mentally, but not emotionally. I think that he needs to start being more independent, and less dependent on me, before I can let him go. I really want him to be a Webelos for the full length of time the Webelos program is intended to be. I’m also concerned that if I let him go that early, that he’ll be a 5th grader in a Boy Scout troop with 6th grade and up kids, and I don't think he can really handle being the youngest boy in the troop until his friends cross over later the following February (we went on a troop activity, and the other boys were calling him "Shorty").

I know I’m walking a very thin line here, and just maybe I’m making the advancement process harder for him. Should I let him work the activity badges on his own, outside of the den? I’m doing things this way because he’s my son, and ultimately, it’s my choice to let him move on to Boy Scouting when I sign his application for the troop. But what if other boys want to leave early? I can suggest all I want, but if the parent wants him to move on, and he meets the joining requirements, then there is not much I can do. (Michelle Matowski, WDL, Detroit Area Council, MI)

The BSA clearly states, in several places available to all, that any Boy Scout can earn any merit badge any time he chooses. 

If, in six months, your son has earned nine Webelos activity badges, that's perfectly OK assuming that the other boys in the Webelos den have also earned these nine activity badges.  If this has not happened, then something peculiar's happening that you're not telling me about.

As for graduating, your son should be encouraged to remain with his den fellows, because then they all join a troop together and become a Boy Scout patrol together, and if he heads off to Boy Scouting alone and without his buddies, he's gonna be on his own.

I absolutely hear your concern about his desire to gobble up every badge in sight, and his wanting you to sign off on everything, and your desire to truly prepare him for Boy Scouting, and there's absolutely a way to deal with both of these issues: Resign as a Webelos Den Leader effective immediately. There are, as you pointed out, two other WDLs already in place to run the den program.  Meanwhile, this instantly solves the “run to Mom for another signature” behavior.  It also gives you a rest from your concerns.

Hi Andy,

I’m checking out the usscouts.org site for a diagram of the Webelos Scout (first year) uniform but was unable to find one. Can you tell me where to look? (Michael Weinberger) 

Try the Webelos Handbook.  That's always your best resource.  We here are in the "supplemental" category!

Dear Andy,

A question came up at our troop committee meeting last night that we were unable to resolve: In the time between obtaining the merit badge application and completing the merit badge, who holds the application—Is it the responsibility of the Scout, the Merit Badge Counselor, or the troop's advancement chair? (Tim Millen, SM, Three Fires Council, IL)

The merit badge application (aka "blue card") is given to the Scout by his Scoutmaster, per page 187 of the Boy Scout Handbook.  The Scout presents the card to his Merit Badge Counselor at their introductory meeting, and who hangs on to the card while the merit badge is being earned is between these two.  The troop advancement chair has absolutely nothing to do with that card until the process is completed.  When all of the requirements for the merit badge are completed, the MBC will give the card back to the Scout after having signed and dated it (he keeps the MBC portion of it, of course); thereupon, the Scout gives the remaining two portions to his Scoutmaster, who signs that he has received it and gives the "applicant's portion" back to the Scout right then and there, turning the final third of the card over to the troop’s advancement chair for recording on an advancement report, submitting it to the local council, and obtaining the merit badge and merit badge card for the Scout at the very earliest possible opportunity.  The merit badge is then presented to the Scout at, ideally, the very next troop meeting; the one after that, at the most.

Dear Andy,

Can the Cubmaster and the Assistant Cubmaster—wife and husband, in that order—be responsible for everything in a pack?  We have no Committee Chair, treasurer, secretary, or advancement person. The wife-and-husband are constantly complaining about having to take care of everything, but at the same time they won’t let anyone assist them.  When we ask about the pack’s finances we’re always given a different figure.  They say we started this year off with only $35, but we collected dues from over 80 boys—where did the money go? A lot of parents are willing to help, but they’re not acknowledged.  And then this couple makes comments that they don’t care what boys quit, so long as they turn in their popcorn sales money.  What can we parents do? (Concerned Cub Parent, Quapaw Council, AR)

Do you have Den Leaders?  Are there dens according to rank (Wolf, Bear, etc.)?  Are there pack meetings where rank advancements and arrow points and den skits and songs happen?  Is there an annual service project for your sponsor?  Has your pack earned the Quality Unit award any time in the recent past?  All of these are signs of “pack health.”  If some or all of them are missing, this is a pack in possibly serious trouble.

Concerned parents can do a lot!  You parents who care, and have spines, go to the head of whatever organization or group sponsors your pack—all together, not onesy's and twosey's and NO EMAIL WARS!—and, in an in-person, eyeball-to-eyeball meeting, you tell that person your problems just like you told me, and you tell that person that he or he has the right to fire these couple on the spot, and when this is done, you already have a group of parents who have agreed that they'll step right in and be Cubmaster, be Den Leaders for the boys, and form a pack committee of at least six people to cover the other needed areas (secretary, treasurer, advancement, Popcorn, Pinewood Derby, and a Committee Chair to make it all work).

If the head of the sponsor refuses, is reluctant to take action, or asks you to "work with" this pair, you have just one option that stands a chance of providing a decent Cub Scouting program for your sons: You tell him or her, straight from the shoulder, no—unless these two are removed, we are all removing our sons from the pack effective immediately; we will start another pack in the neighborhood that does things the right way, and thank you for listening.  Then you leave and do it.

So now you see the reason for having spines.  Folks need to be lined up ahead of time, and they need to commit, and they need to be willing to move on.  "Why can't we all just get along?" won't work.

Dear Andy,

Our troop needs some clarification on two-deep rule.  Are two adults required to be present every place the Scouts gather?  I’ve read that there must be two adults on all outings and trips, meaning that every time we go somewhere other than our regular meeting place. I’ve also read that, within our regular meeting place, the Scouts may conduct the portions of the troop meeting without constant adult presence (in our case, the Scouts are in a choir loft that overlooks and is open to the main hall below, so we on the main floor can hear and monitor their activity).  Once the troop meeting’s started, I prefer to let my Senior Patrol Leader take change while I just pop in periodically to assure that he’s on-track and to make sure the Scouts are behaving like Scouts.  On the other hand, our Committee Chair is of the belief that “two-deep” means that two adults must be present at all times, regardless of where and what the Scouts are doing. Your advice on this would be appreciated. (Brian Ulmen, SM, Catalina Council, AZ)

You and your CC need to do some "shared reading."  If you read, for instance, the first few pages of the Guide to Safe Scouting, you'll both come to realize that having two adults present all the time isn't necessary.  Patrol activities, which would of course include patrol meetings, don't require two adults; in fact, they don't require any adults at all!  This would apply to PLC meetings, we'd presume, just as it would to, say, Scouts coming out to help a fellow Scout who's an Eagle candidate with his leadership service project. But there's a one-sentence caveat on page 134 of my Scoutmaster Handbook (No.33009, 1998 Edition): "Adult leaders must monitor and guide the leadership techniques used by junior leaders and ensure that BSA policies are followed."

If you both read both of these together, as a team, I believe you can work out something that's manageable.  The idea is to share in this solution, rather than be at loggerheads with one another over points of view that are equally valid and equally unaccommodating of the other's perspective.

Remember that what you're working to avoid is one adult and one Scout (only) together and in isolation.  So, for the Scoutmaster alone to be sitting at the back of the room while the SPL conducts the PLC meeting is perfectly acceptable; in fact, that's how it's supposed to be.  Or, for two or more adults to be over on the side of the room, carrying out other troop business but in earshot and they can look over if they choose to, while the troop meeting itself is being run by the SPL and the Patrol Leaders, is just fine.  In fact, this would be a model troop meeting from that perspective.

The thing to remember, I believe, is that these aren't Cub Scouts any more, and they're not our little 4th grade soccer teams: They're BOY SCOUTS. Yes, we want to follow the BSA's safety policies and youth protection guidelines, but we don't want to over-read them to the point where we've injected ourselves into every Boy Scout moment these young men have, ultimately stultifying their maturation through Scouting, because to do that keeps them small instead of helping them grow.

Dear Andy,

At a troop meeting the other night, one of our other leaders helped our "new" patrol perform the opening flag ceremony.  The Scouts were to walk from the back of the room to the front.  This leader had the troop flag leading the American flag. When walking in a line, I’d think that the American flag would be in front.  Yes? No?  Also, when posting the flags in their stands, of course the American flag is on its own right, but which flag is posted first? Can you help us out? (Duane Abbott, ASM, Old North State Council, NC)

First: I admire your desire to "get it right." Second: Don't drive yourself nuts.  The organization with the best detailed flag ceremony descriptions I’ve found is the GSUSA. That's right: The Girl Scouts! Google "flag ceremonies" but go here for sure:

www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/ceremonies/flag.asp

BTW, It's not the least bit uncommon for both the American and the troop flag to be brought in side-by-side (just like you see in parades and ceremonies in ballparks and football stadiums), with the American flag always to its own right and then the flags cross one another at the front of the meetings room so that the American flag, now facing the audience, is still to its own right.  Pop 'em in their floor stands together.

At a camp, where there are flagpoles or other means of hoisting flags, the American flag is always raised first, and crisply (as if eagerly), and lowered last, and slowly (as if reluctantly).

Dear Andy,

In one of the troops I serve, the Scoutmaster is also a Merit Badge Counselor for Camping merit badge.  With one particular Scout, he’s talked with him about his requirements and explained to the Scout exactly what he needed to do, encouraging him to come to the next campout, to show his stuff. But the Scout said that he’d already done all of the requirements, with another Leader. So the Scoutmaster-MBC asked him what he’s cooked for requirement 8 (plan and cook three meals for your patrol), to which the Scout responded, "I don't know."  So the Scoutmaster-MBC told the Scout that he wants him to do the requirements out a troop outdoor activity, and then he’ll get signed off.   Meanwhile, the other leader is vouching for the Scout, saying that he did all the requirements.  The Scoutmaster-MBC, however, is insisting that the Scout do the required work and cooking at a troop event, as he offered, and that if the Scout can’t remember what he cooked, he can’t be considered to have fulfilled the requirement.  This has become quite a mess, and raises the question of whether a MBC has the right to insist that a requirement be met in front of him.  The other leader said he can produce hand-written menus, and is adamant that the Scout has completed the requirements.  What’s the best solution for this problem? (Kim Stanton, UC, Finger Lakes Council, NY)

Any Merit Badge Counselor who is told by a Scout that he's completed a requirement elsewhere has both the right and the obligation to verify this, because it's his or her final signature that's going to go on that card!  Quick example: As a Swimming MBC, I get calls from Scouts in September and October asking me if they can complete the one or two requirements they missed for this merit badge while at summer camp.  Usually, it's something simple, and even if it's not I always say sure, let's meet and talk it over and make a plan. But... Even if the requirements remaining aren't in-the-water, I'll get this Scout in the water "just so you can show me your stuff."  Why?  Simple: I'm the one who's signing him off as a legitimate swimmer; not some summer camp counselor—that's my name there and I need to know the Scout can do what the requirements say he can do!

In the case of this Scout and Camping merit badge, the MBC was, in my mind, a pretty lenient guy.  Obviously, if the Scout has simply started describing any of the three full meals he'd prepared for a patrol of six to eight Scouts, and then talked a little bit about the kind of stove he'd used, and maybe a little bit about fuel- and stove-safety, everything would have gone swimmingly.  But the kid clammed up, or had a brain hiccup, or whatever, and that doesn't hack it when you're trying to impress your MBC that you know your stuff.  When the Scout screwed up (big time, by the way!) the MBC was kindly; not reprimanding: "Come to our next campout and show your stuff" is a pretty generous offer!

Instead, what's happening?  Some other leader has now changed his Scout hat for one that says "Rescue Ranger"!  Baloney.  This Scout sank himself. He needs to rescue himself and his MBC has already given him a way to do it.  If he's a true Scout, with the spirit of Scouting in his heart, he'll step up to the plate and "show his stuff"!  Or if he does need help, he'll have equal courage to ask for it.

AS far as that mysterious (if not total buttinsky) "other leader" who's now waving papers about, what's the story?  Why was he inveigling himself between a Scout and his MBC? (That's a rhetorical question.)

You're the Unit Commissioner: Not your problem, and you have no "jurisdiction" over anyone, much less MBCs.  However, if asked, you can offer these observations:

- To an ASM or MC: Stay out of it. You have no jurisdiction over MBCs.

- To the "Leader-turned-Rescue Ranger": Let it go.  You're not the MBC and waving papers around endears you to no one.

- To the Scout's parents: Encourage him to take the MBC's offer, and cook up some really special meals!

- To the wife of the MBC: Take pride in your husband for getting it right!

Dear Andy,

I'm new as a Cubmaster but not as a Scout—I was a Scout as a kid. Our pack is growing fast, and we have a Den Leader who’s over-stepping his boundaries.  In addition to last year’s Tigers stepping up to Wolf, we recruited a brand-new crop of Cubs who started at the Wolf level.  My suggestion was to divide both the “old” Wolves and the “new” Wolves, to balance the dens and to not isolate the new wolves.  This DL didn't take my suggestion. We also have one ADL for the Wolves, and this DL has decided that the ADL will assist both dens, which meet on different nights, while he takes on overall leadership of all of the Wolf Cubs, rather than having independent dens. I don't know how to address this with him, and our committee takes a real passive style of running and organizing things, so I can't take the question to them, either.  Suggestions? (Dave, CM, Greater Pittsburgh Council, PA)

In the first place, thanks for standing up and being a Cubmaster!  This can be one of the most enjoyable and rewarding positions and experiences in all of adult volunteer Scouting.

When the second-graders joined up, their parents should have been told, right at the get-go, that in order for their boys to be Cub Scouts, two of these parents would need to sign on and take training, because these boys need a Den Leader and an Assistant Den Leader and the pack doesn't supply these—they come from the parents of the boys in the den!

Meanwhile, the existing den of Tigers-to-Wolf should absolutely not be split up, no matter what!  They have been together as a den for a year, and should be expected to continue straight through the Cub Scouting “pipeline” all the way to becoming a patrol of Boy Scouts.

As to your wayward Den Leader... You're a guy, he's a guy... are you sure this isn't a plain old boys' you-know-what contest?  You say black, he says white.  You know the deal.  Frankly, it sounds like he's trying to build a "power base" of a mini-pack within the pack.  Bottom line on him: If he refuses to cooperate, he gets fired.  To do this, you need a Committee Chair and/or a COR with a spine, and a belief that you're doing the right thing. You get him or her on your side, you tell 'em that this has to be fixed before it gets out of hand, you and the COR or CC (in that order) meet personally with the DL and tell him that there will be two separate dens and each will have its own DL and ADL, and they will not meet concurrently or at the same location, and this will happen immediately, and it's not open to further discussion--would he like to be a part of this process.  If there's any argument, the COR's or CC's next words are "Thank you for your services; they will no longer be needed."

When the COR does this, there's no recourse. When the CC does this and has already informed the COR of what might happen and requests 100% support and is assured of it, there's no "higher power."  There's no "going to council" or any of that nonsense.  And it cannot be overturned.  And, if the COR and CC happen to be the same person, it's almost a no-brainer.

That said, understand that it’s not the best solution.  The best solution is that he goes back to being DL of his own den and you recruit some new parents to take charge of the “new” Wolf den.  Nothing’s cast in concrete and there’s absolutely no reason why this can’t be fixed right now.

Dear Andy,

In reading your columns, I notice recurring questions about how to define the phrase, "be active in your troop…"  I agree with you 100%: If a Scout is registered, who are we to demand that he put Scouting above, school, school band, team sports, church activities, and other important aspects of his life.  The problem is that, as I scour the web for "official wording," I'm drawing a blank.   Could you please tell me where I can find the definition of "active" in any BSA publication.

There’s a Scout in a neighboring troop who’s told me about how his Scoutmaster is denying him the right to move forward on his Eagle project because “he's not active enough.”  This is a young man who is a McMillian Scholar, carries a 4.0 GPA, runs track, and is as active as any teen could ever be, and on top of all this, he's completed all of his requirements for Eagle except for this project.   Now he's got to deal with this nonsense? Can you help me help him? (Paul Napoli, ASM, Baltimore Area Council, MD)

If you've read any of my columns, you already know how I feel about these little tin gods and the horsepucky they dish out to the very youth they're supposed to be serving.  If your troop doesn't have this lame-brained approach, get this Scout to transfer over immediately, guide him toward getting his project up-and-running, and enjoy his receiving Eagle at one of your own troop's courts of honor.  The troop he's in doesn't deserve him and the kind of Scoutmaster he's got is the kind who would stick to his misguided "principles" even if the "writing" this Scout needs were in the Bible!  Now, on the other hand, if the Scout himself doesn't want to leave that troop for any reason ("my friends are there," it's too far to drive," whatever), then the only thing you can tell him is that you've offered him a way to achieve a goal that will last a lifetime, but life's a series of choices and if this is his, then Godspeed.

Hi Andy,

I’m a first-year Webelos Den Leader.  This is my third year of being a DL (I started with Wolf, then did Bear).  I saw something about service stars for adults and I have a question:  Since I was a Brownie and a Girl Scout when I was a girl (from first until fifth grade), does that mean I can get a service star?  Do I add my years as a Girl Scout to the years I'm a Den Leader as an adult?

Also, how do I nominate another leader, for being a mentor, for the religious knot?  I can't find a nomination form anywhere, and I’d really like to see him get his religious knot—He earned it! (Debbie Duenkel, Bay-Lakes Council, WI)

Service stars are available to all who are registered in the Boy Scouts of America.  Your Webelos Scouts can wear these—with a yellow background circle—one for each year they've been in the program (if they started as Tiger Cubs, they can right now wear three non-numbered starts or one 3-year star).  Adult leaders wear service stars with a pale blue background circle -- One for every year of adult service.  If an adult leader is male, and was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Venturer, or Explorer (all BSA programs) he can add those years to his adult years and wear a star with the total number on it.

Brownies and Girl Scouts are programs of the GSUSA, a separate and distinct organization that has no connection to the BSA except that both organizations have the word "Scout" in their name. That's it.

Earn your Den Leader award, and/or your Cub Scouter award, then earn your Webelos Den Leader award—for these you get "square knots"!  MUCH more impressive than a couple of stars, that anyone with a registration card and a pulse can get!  Hoo-Hah!

The adult religious recognitions are more than merely a "square knot."  To learn about these, go to P.R.A.Y. (Programs of Religious Activities with Youth) at www.praypub.org.  On the right of their home page you'll see a box titled "Quick Links." Go there and just click on Adult Nomination Forms. Then, select the faith and see what's available and how to go about nominating.

Dear Andy,

Our son is working on the invitation process for his Eagle court of honor and our question is:  Has society advanced to the point that it’s proper and acceptable to send invitations to a court of honor via e-mail? 

Also, I’m looking at our own council website only to find no street addresses for the execs.  I have some street addresses on some volunteers.  Can you give us some advice on this? (Larry & Laura Hannan, Jayhawk Area Council, KS)

Congratulations to your son!  Miss Manners tells us with absolute clarity that society has not "advanced" ("devolved"?) to where e-mail invitations to special events like this are acceptable replacements for mailed paper invitations, perhaps with hand-written notes in them for special people (e.g., Grandma, Grandpa, Godparent, Mayor of your town, and so forth).

Regarding your council and district executives, sending invitations is a nice courtesy, and if someone there’s able to attend, that's delightful.  You would address that invitation to his or her workplace, which is your council's service center address.  Do keep in mind that the life of a professional Scouter is very crowded: Few have very much of a personal life and anyone in the profession will tell you it's not a "family-friendly" career.  So, since the D.E. just might like the afternoon off for a change, and he or she isn't the highest-ranking person in the district anyway, you may want to invite the District Chairman, and you may also want to invite the person on the district advancement committee who helped your son through his final steps to Eagle (i.e., his leadership service project).

Your local Scout Shop sells some very nice Eagle Court of Honor invitations. Don't rule these out!

Finally, if this is a troop court of honor and other Scouts will be recognized for their achievements (e.g., other ranks, merit badges, etc.), then it would be most appropriate for the troop's committee to be sending out invitations, and you can give them a list of special names that you'd appreciate being included.

Hi Andy!

What’s the significance of assigning den numbers to a pack’s various dens (Wolves, Bears, etc.)?  When we joined last year, we were told by a long-time Scouter in the Scout shop that the den numbers started being used when there were, for example, multiple Wolf dens in the same pack, so that there would be Wolf Den 1, Wolf Den 2, and so on.  Instead, over the years packs have kept on assigning den numbers even when there’s only one den per level and most packs are assigning specific numbers to dens that the dens then keep throughout their entire five years.  I can attest to this: We are Wolves, Den 4, on our uniforms, and we were Tigers Den 4 last year. Can you clarify the policy regarding den numbers? (Melissa Burke, DL, California Inland Empire Council)

Any den can be any number it chooses, but obviously it's easier to pick a den number that doesn't have to be specially embroidered.  The usual way den numbers happen is that, when one or more new Tiger Cub dens form at the beginning of the school-and-Scouting year, they pick a number that no other den in the pack is using, buy the patches, and sew 'em on their shirts; then they keep that number as they progress through their Wolf, Bear, and Webelos years, until they graduate from the pack and become Boy Scouts. Simple as that!

That person in the store was wrong.  Den's aren't known as "Wolf den X," or "Bear den Y," etc.—They're known as Den 1, Den 2, and so on, regardless of grade level.  Most Scout store people are clerks; not Scouting experts, even though many like to think that, because they work there, this somehow makes them experts, so be sure you verify what you’re told before you take it to be gospel.  Unfortunately, it’s merely spouting off.  If, however, they open up a BSA book and show you what it says, that’s entirely different and entirely right.

Happy Scouting!

Andy