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Dear Andy,
Peter Kronenthal, my father, about whom
you wrote last year, has passed away at the age of 99. He was associated
with the Boy Scouts of America for over 85 years. Donations, in his
honor and name, can be made directly to the Boy Scouts of America. Thank
you, Andy. (Donald Kronenthal, West
Palm Beach, FL)
Thank you, Donald, and please accept my
sincere sympathy for your family's loss. Michael F. Bowman, our
Webmaster, also sends his warmest regards and deepest sympathy.
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Remember the two brothers who were
having trouble mastering swimming? Here are two personal stories worth
reading: Both great examples of why swimming can and should be a life
skill!
Hi Andy,
In your Mid-January
column, a UC described a couple of “challenged” Scouts whose father
couldn’t swim, either. This sounds like me many years ago. I made
Eagle without any aquatic badges (that could be done back in the '70s)
and it’s a good thing that the BSA changed that policy!
When I was 23 and a
Scoutmaster, I found that I could no longer ignore my inability to
swim. I took lessons at a local YMCA, but even after a half-dozen
classes I was still sinking, until a grandma jumped in (You know the
type…overweight, tight black tank suit, blue rubber bathing cap with
pink rubber flowers). She was walking along the pool deck when she
spotted me unsuccessfully trying to float (with a paid Y swimming
instructor right next to me!). She jumped in and politely took over
from the instructor (who was trying to keep me afloat). She told me to
put my arms and legs in specific positions, getting me to bend my knees
90 degrees and Eureka! I'm floating! She got me floating in under two
2 minutes, after years of unsuccessful attempts! She told me she’d
taught her own children, her grandchildren, nieces, and nephews, too.
She’d “thrown away the book” years ago, and focused on distracting that
wooden block on top of our necks while finding just the right
combination for buoyancy. Once those “mental blocks” obstacles above
the neck are dealt with, then we can start to learn to swim (or do
anything else!) with success! So to that family: Go find a non-instructor
to help conquer your personal obstacles, try some non-traditional ways!
(Dave Mountney, UC & Eagle Scout)
Hi Andy,
After reading about the scouts that
can’t swim, it took me back to my Boy Scout years. I, too, couldn’t
swim. My Scoutmaster took me to the YMCA and Steve, one of his Army
buddies, met us there. He told Steve that this kid (me!) was too thin,
small, and out of shape to be able to swim. Steve watched me beat the
water in an attempt to swim, and he knew what we were up against: I was
afraid of the water! He knew I’d first have to learn how to relax in
the water and float, but I couldn’t! So he gave me an empty, capped
half-gallon milk jug, told me to hold it to my chest, and then had me
lay face-up in the water across his hands. Then he let me go. I could
float just fine hugging the milk jug with all that extra air across my
chest. Then he told me that I had a place for that extra air right
inside me—my own lungs!—and all I needed to do was learn how to balance
my body on top of the water. Steve showed me that by leaning my head
back and arching my back I could “open up” my lungs and “balance” myself
on top of the water! He held his hands under my back until I was
balanced. I lay on the water for a few minutes when to my surprise Steve
said, “You’re floating!” Of course I instantly sank! But I realized that
I could indeed float. Soon I was doing the back stroke all around the
pool and before I knew it I could swim face-down. I was 14 years old and
knowing how to swim was the only thing that was keeping me from
advancing to First Class. I did it!
Now here’s the best part…
When my son became a Scout he still couldn’t swim. Summer camp was
coming soon and he was upset that he’d be one of the Scouts that would
have to “stay in the kiddy pool” at summer camp. So I set out to teach
him how to swim. I had just three weeks to do this. We went to the
pool three times a week for the next three weeks. The first thing I saw
was myself: fighting the water, afraid. I knew just what to do. After
using Steve’s teaching method, my son was soon floating, and then
swimming. Now we had only one week to build up his swimming skill so he
could pass the summer camp swimming test.
Summer camp came. The Scoutmaster had
the SPL round up all the Scouts to go to the waterfront. My son walked
straight out to the deep end of the swimming dock, jumped in, and
started swimming right along with the other Scouts. He passed his first
summer camp swim test with no problems.
I have found that thin scouts with very
little or no fat are very easy to teach to swim. Look at any swimming
team: not an ounce of fat anywhere! (Don McDow, UC & Former SM, Greater
Alabama Council)
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Dear Sir,
In your answer to Sheryl Eichenlaub, you
say: "Let's begin by re-reading the BSA's own Statement of Religious
Principle, which can readily be found on every youth and adult
application. There, it states with clarity that while a belief in God
is fundamental to Scouting principles, the BSA is completely
nondenominational and nonsectarian in all other regards and leaves all
specific teachings to be done by others, including parents and religious
leaders. So it doesn't take a Clarence Darrow to figure out that any
teachings that are specific to a particular faith or denomination of a
faith have no place in a Scout meeting. Period."
There is a set of circumstances where
your penultimate sentence—“…it doesn't take a Clarence Darrow..."—fails
to be true.
When the Chartering Organization ("CO")
is itself a religious institution, the unit is considered an extension
of that institution’s youth ministry, and the CO may include "teachings
that are specific to a particular faith or denomination of a faith" as
part of the Scout meeting. While the Boy Scouts of America is and
remains completely nondenominational and nonsectarian, a unit chartered
by the BSA may, when the Chartering Organization is a religious
institution, include the specific teachings of that religion. (John
Unger, CC, Pack 199; MC, Troop 114, NA, Crew 99, Sam Houston Area
Council)
You can beg and differ till the cows come home, but the bottom line is
this: Specific religious teachings have no place inside a Scout
meeting.
Dear Andy,
I’m an outgoing CM, effective next
month. I’ve always believed in some pomp and ceremony in the various
transitions of Cub Scouting, and I’d like to have some form of ceremony
when I promote the ACM at our Blue & Gold. But I can't seem to find any
sample ceremonies on this particular topic. While I could make
something up, I’d prefer something that might be used as a guide. Any
thoughts? (Mike Marineau, CM, Glacier’s Edge Council, WI)
I've not seen a ceremony for what you're
contemplating, but it’s been a while since I checked out the CUB
SCOUT FUN BOOK and the CUB SCOUT LEADERS BOOK. Maybe there's
something in one of these. If not, I like your idea of creating a new
ceremony for the "changing of the guard" that can become an instant
tradition in your Pack!
Dear Andy,
I’ve been researching some local
organizations where our Scout troop might be able to do some volunteer
work, and the other day I called and spoke to someone at a nearby
shelter for homeless and battered women. She was really happy to speak
with me, and said there are lots of projects that we Scouts could do, so
I’m going up to meet with her and check it out. (There could be Eagle
projects for our Life Scouts to consider, too.)
My question is this: Personally, I don’t
need service hours for rank advancement, but as SPL of our troop I want
to set an example for other Scouts by doing some community service
work. I bought this idea up at our PLC and our Scoutmaster told me that
it needs to get approved by the troop committee. What’s the scoop on
this and where do I find the information on who approves these service
projects—Scoutmaster or committee or both or what?
Also, when a Scout finishes a service
project, is it a BSA requirement that he write it up, or is he required
to give a verbal report to someone. I’m not referring to anything for
Eagle projects. Just in trying to “Do a Good Turn." (SPL, Northern New
Jersey Council)
In reverse order...
For all service except for the Eagle
candidate and his leadership service project for that rank, no write-up
of any kind is needed. Yes, the nature of the service that the First
Class or Star Scout intends to render does need to be approved by the
Scoutmaster (in advance, of course, as stated in the "Service Projects"
section of the BOY SCOUT REQUIREMENTS book). But a recording of hours is
all that’s required, and any insistence on a write-up of some sort
(other than "I helped Life Scout John Doe with his Eagle project last
Saturday from 9 AM to 2 PM for a total of 5 hours) would be a violation
of the BSA's policy that requirements cannot be added to or subtracted
from.
As for your desire to set the example for your fellow Scouts by
volunteering at a shelter (or anywhere else, for that matter), so long
as the service is for a charitable or not-for-profit organization or
agency, this can be presented to the troop committee for endorsement
(you’d be doing this as a courtesy), but they certainly would not
be “within their rights” to in any way discourage or "veto" your idea!
Personally, I think your idea is admirable and that you bring credit on
Scouting and yourself by even contemplating service "above and beyond"!
Dear Andy,
In an earlier column, you
suggested the movie, "Pay it Forward," for the Citizenship in the
Community movie-viewing requirement. We used that movie for Cit-Comm at
our recent Merit Badge College, and it worked really well. Both the
Scouts and the adults had a good discussion after we showed it. Thanks
for your help. (Dave Sutter, ASM, Troop 241, Simon Kenton Council,
Lithopolis, OH)
Try my December 2006 column for
more movies. And, if you're talking about citizenship, consider the
James Stewart (who held the BSA’s Silver Buffalo award, by the way!)
classic "Mister Smith Goes To Washington," or any one of the three
different versions of "All The King's Men," or Spencer Tracy's "The Last
Hurrah," or even the Gary Cooper version of "Beau Geste"!
Dear Andy,
Is it against BSA uniform regulations for a boy
to wear and outdated rank patch, for instance, a 1980’s era Star patch
in lieu of the current Star patch? They are very different in color
scheme. I did check my insignia guide and it didn’t seem to address it,
but it only contains a portion of the uniform regulations. (Gordon
Gregory, ASM, Troop 159, Blue Ridge Council, SC)
Yes, although it's a bit unusual, it's
perfectly "legal." I’m going to guess it’s his father's, and that’s a
wonderful legacy!
Dear Andy,
Have you seen or do you have a
certificate to present to a Webelos Scout crossing over to Boy Scouts?
(Paul Markoff)
I've not seen one, but I think the idea's
terrific! So put your creative hat on and design one! I'm sure your
Webelos will love it. In fact, if you tie it to the Troop they're
joining, this is a great "reminder"!
Dear Andy,
Our troop has quite a problem. We have
a young man, now 18, who has fulfilled all the requirements for his
Eagle, but unfortunately before he finished these requirements he did
something quite unbecoming of a Scout, and could be charged with a
felony. His court date is not until after the six-month time limit to
have his Eagle BoR beyond 18th birthday. Obviously, the
troop committee will have to have his BoR before he has been charged, or
exonerated, from any of these charges. Our Council Executive has had
several conversations with the National Office about this problem and,
together, they’ve come up with a solution that they think will work. The
National Office wants the troop committee to hold this young man’s BoR
before the courts decision, but withhold our decision from the Scout and
send the paperwork to them, and they will in turn hold the paperwork
until the outcome of his trial, or court’s decision, is final. They’ve
said that if he’s convicted of a felony then they’ll tear up his
application and the outcome is obvious; however, if he’s acquitted, or
possibly charged with a lesser offense, then National, at their
discretion, will approve or disapprove his application based on the
troop committee’s recommendations.
Our problem isn’t with the National
Office or their recommendations. It’s on how to have a "fair" BoR for
this candidate. Ours is a small town where everyone knows everyone
else, and everyone else's business if you know what I mean. We, the
troop committee, have had several parents, both in and out of Scouting,
come to us and voice their displeasure that we’re actually thinking
about having this BoR. I listen and try not to remind them that here in
America he’s innocent until proven guilty. This young man has always
been an outstanding citizen in this community and an exemplary Scout, up
until his incident. He has always been a Scout that the younger members
in the troop emulated. So, Andy, how much of the Eagle BoR is
subjective? Is this young man's BoR cut and dry, or do you think
there’s a way to help the other troop committee members understand that
just because the Scout did something unbecoming, that doesn’t give us
the right to put a "reject" stamp on him? (Troop Committee Chair,
council name withheld)
Thanks for all of the detail you've
provided, and for sticking with the facts of the matter. Yes, this is a
convoluted and potentially emotionally charged situation (and one
that's, thankfully, very rare). Some years back, I encountered a
situation virtually identical to what you've described. My role was
that of the council representative at a troop-level Eagle board of
review in which there was controversy (and even contentiousness) on the
part of the candidate's Scoutmaster and parents, as well as members of
the troop's committee. The same question hung in the air: In a
situation like this, can a "fair" board be conducted. To this, I
applied the "clean hands" principle and asked each potential member of
the board this: "Understanding that the board's decision must be
unanimous, are you prepared to vote affirmatively right now, this
moment, because if you're not, you'd be coming onto the board already
prejudiced and I'm going to ask you to remove yourself." We did have
two potential members who said they were too set against the young man
to vote "cleanly," and they did remove themselves. The balance (yes, we
still had a quorum) agreed to vote without prejudice, and we were able
to proceed. The result was one of solid integrity.
That said, I’m also obliged to tell you
that it is entirely possible and “legal” to hold an Eagle Board of
Review later than six months beyond a young man’s 18th
birthday. In this situation, a letter explaining the reason for the
delay is in order, of course, but that’s it.
Dear Andy,
I’ve just agreed to step into the pack
committee chair position following the resignation of the prior CC. A
question has come up regarding the requirements for the Arrow of Light.
Our Cubmaster and out-going committee chair are convinced that, at the
Webelos level, the boy must pass a “Cubmaster Board of Review” before
advancing. The Webelos Den Leader has never heard of this requirement,
it’s not in our pack’s bylaws, and all I can find are the requirements
between the Webelos Scout and his Den Leader or new Scoutmaster. Do you
know of any requirement for a Cubmaster board? (Vera Wintink, MC/soon
to be CC, Colonial Council, Newport News, VA)
I have no idea where these dunderheads ever
got the notion that there are "boards of review" for Cub/Webelos
Scouts. Of course they're wrong, and shame on them for trying to
perpetuate something as nonsensical as this!
Dear Andy,
What’s BSA the policy for perfect
attendance for a pack that meets twelve months a year? We’ve looked and
haven’t really found an answer. Our committee voted that a Cub would
receive a perfect attendance pin if he attended 75% or more of the
scheduled den meetings for the year. This was OK with all until we had a
couple of boys miss getting the pin because they’d only attended 70% of
the meetings. (Brian Freeman, ACM, Pack 301, Dallas, GA)
The attendance pin appears to have no
BSA-stipulated requirements. I've checked both Cub Scout and Boy Scout
handbooks, as well as the Boy Scout Requirements book and the
BSA Insignia Guide. This would place it more in the category of
"recognition" than an "advancement" that has requirements to be
fulfilled. Notice, also, that it's called an "attendance pin" and not a
“’perfect’ attendance pin.” All of this suggests that standards may be
set at the unit level, just as you have done. To me, personally, your
stipulation of 75% certainly seems fair: It allows for absences that
will inevitably occur, and doesn't require notes from parents,
physicians, and all that sort of stuff. But, the human fact-of-life is
that, no matter where you set the bar, there will be those who fall
short of it and among these, complainers (rarely the boys; usually the
parents who want their little Fargus to have as much stuff on his shirt
as humanly possible, regardless of whether it deserves to be there or
not). If you've set 75% as the standard, and everybody knew this in
advance, then just stick to your guns! If you start waffling on this,
you'll turn this into nothing more than a meaningless chunk of brass.
Dear Andy,
If you’re about to have a Blue & Gold
banquet and a Webelos Scout has completed the requirements for his Arrow
of Light, once it is presented to him does he have to cross over and
become a Boy Scout right then and there, or can he continue working on
his other activity pins? We have a Webelos II Scout who’s met all the
requirements for the AoL and wants to receive it at the B&G, but then he
wants to continue to earn the balance of all 20 pins (he’s completed 16
so far). (Rhonda Hitt)
Pretty much, once he's earned the AoL, he's
DONE. Doing a "sweep," as it's commonly called, happens BEFORE earning
the AoL—Not after! While I certainly commend his interest, he's going
to learn a lot more brand-new stuff as a Boy Scout and so he should
definitely pick a troop and cross to it with the rest of his Webelos II
Den!
Dear Andy,
Our pack started just over a year ago
and our district assigned us a committee chairperson to head our
committee. In asking why we were assigned a committee chair,
instead of choosing our own, we were told that because we’re a brand-new
unit this person had lots of experience to offer us. Well, it's been a
tough year with this chair. I know that committee members are elected,
but is there a term to their positions? Is there an election period for
all the committee positions? And, in the same regard, does the
Cubmaster position have a term limit and does this position require an
election as well? Any help or guidance you could offer would be great.
(Brian Freeman, ACM, Pack 301, Dallas, GA)
Let's deal with your appointed committee
chair first. Assuming you have an actual Pack Committee, in addition to
Den Leaders and Cubmaster (and I DON'T mean DLs pulling double-duty, I
mean actual parents who have stepped up to help the CM and DLs operate
the Pack), then the committee chair's "term" ends when you're all sick
and tired of him/her. "WHAT!" you say, "Do you mean we can 'fire' our
chair and replace with one of our own, and we don't have to go through
some protracted process to do this?" BINGO! You got it, Kiddo! That
person was appointed (which is a pretty stupid idea to begin with, but
we'll go into that some other time) to "help you all get started" and
now you're a year old, so you're not a start-up any more! Besides, that
appointee's one biggest job should have been to TRAIN THE REPLACEMENT
COMMITTEE CHAIR FROM YOUR OWN RANKS, and if this didn't happen, then
that appointee has failed you, big time! Time to back the dump truck up
to the Pack's rear end and get rid of stuff you don't need!
The usual "term" for volunteer leaders,
particularly in Cub Scouting, is start-of-year (usually September) to
end-of-year. If a volunteer leader intends to vacate his or her
position at the end of your Pack's Cub Scouting year, it is incumbent
upon them to TRAIN THEIR REPLACEMENT for the coming year.
Dear Andy,
Can you tell me where the “College of
Commissioner Science” patch is exactly placed on the pocket, as well as
the “ring” patches to it? (Darrell Pav, Round Rock, TX)
All such patches are in the "temporary"
category, which actually means "at the wearer's discretion," and are
worn centered on the RIGHT pocket of your uniform shirt. The
“segments,” as they’re called, are supposed to go around the round
central patch, of course, and I hope somebody who knew what they were
doing did the measurements to make sure they fit on the pocket without
slopping over the edges of the pocket's seams! And, of course, it's not
"mandatory" that you wear this patch (or any other, for that matter) on
the right pocket. You might find that it's better off in a memorabilia
box or album, or on a patch blanket.
Dear Andy,
I know an adult leader can
only wear one temporary insignia on the right shirt pocket. I’m
wondering what adult leaders do with the other patches they earn. Can
you give me any suggestions? (Dave Juelfs)
"Temporary," as I just mentioned to
Darrell, is really better defined as "at the wearer's discretion." It's
your choice as to what you want to wear, if anything (it's not
"mandatory" to wear insignia there), on your right uniform shirt
pocket. So, pick the one you like the most, and that's what to wear!
Now sometimes, patches have "hanger loops" (like the famous Philmont
trek "arrowhead"), and it's OK to hang one of those, also. What to do
with the rest? Well, the usual ways are either a memorabilia box or
album, or a patch blanket. Whatever you do, DON'T start sewing them on
arbitrary "open spots" on your shirt!
Dear Andy,
I’m an Assistant Scoutmaster and I’ve
been helping the Webelos Den Leaders with the upcoming crossover of
their boys into our troop. One of the boys in the Webelos den has
completed all 20 of the activities as a first year Webelos and has
earned his Arrow of Light. Most (if not all) of these activities were
not signed off by one of the two den leaders, but rather by the Scout's
mother (not a registered adult leader with the pack or troop).
This mother has recently announced to our troop’s Committee Chair that
she intends to "cross over" with her son and that she will continue to
sign off on his Boy Scout rank advancements. Our Troop has a policy
that no rank advancements can be signed off by a parent; however, what
we’d like to know is whether this is an official BSA policy or just
"recommended"? Our fear is that if we can’t find it stated clearly in
an official BSA document, then this mother will force the issue (and she
will force the issue!). Do you know if there is any official
documentation stating that a parent doesn’t sign off on a son's rank
advancement requirements? And if so, where do we find this
documentation? If it’s not an official BSA position, then do you have
advice on how we should best proceed? (Sharon Rangazas, ASM, Crossroads
of America Council, IN)
Its really unfortunate and unforgiving that
those Webelos Den Leaders let this parent get away with such nonsense!
They were supposed to have told her that, after Bear rank, the DL is the
signer and no longer the parent, and this is done in order to get the
boy used to the way that Boy Scout advancement works, wherein the
Scoutmaster (called Unit Leader in the HANDBOOK to allow for Boy Scout
Team Coaches) or his designate AND NO ONE ELSE signs off. (Understand
that an SPL or even PL can be a designate, but not a parent, especially
not a non-registered parent!)
If this parent thinks she can continue her
wayward ways, she's in for a shock and disappointment. Look in the back
pages of the BOY SCOUT HANDBOOK, where the rank requirement pages
have little boxes for the Unit Leader's initials. Since she's not the
Unit Leader (read SCOUTMASTER) she doesn't get to sign. Period. End of
story. THIS IS BSA ADVANCEMENT POLICY.
Tell her, if she makes noises like she’s
gonna ignore you and do it her own way anyway, that, in Boy Scouts,
there's a BOARD OF REVIEW that parents do not attend (Yes, they are
prohibited by BSA POLICY), and at this review, the extent to which her
son has properly completed his requirements will be examined, and if her
initials and not the Scoutmasters are found anywhere, the BOARD will not
vote to approve her son for advancement, as is the board's absolute
right, again by BSA POLICY.
This is longstanding BSA policy
stuff, and this parent has absolutely no hope of overturning it SO LONG
AS YOU ALL DON'T WAFFLE and YOU STICK TO YOUR GUNS 100%!
For more information, get and read BSA
ADVANCEMENT POLICIES and PROCEDURES. It’s available at your local
Scout Shop.
Meanwhile, get in touch with that Packs
leaders and help them understand the stinko situation they've created
and help them make sure this never happens again!
Hi Andy,
Who gives final approval for the Den
Chief Service Award, and where is it presented—at a Troop Court of Honor
or at a Pack Meeting? (I love your site and learn so much...THANKS!)
(Kathy Larsen, CC, Pack 63, Mt. Baker Council, WA)
The DL is the one who knows that the
requirements have been met, and should collaborate with the Scoutmaster
to make sure this recognition is awarded in a timely and public
fashion. This is a case where BOTH venues—a Pack meeting (like a B&G)
AND a Court of Honor—should be utilized!
Hi Andy,
For the last four years I’ve conducted
the Arrow of Light ceremony for my pack and advanced a total of 24
scouts into Boy Scout troops (most have bridged right into our sister
troop). The Scoutmaster and I try to get them to at least one session
of summer camp immediately. This, however, is a very difficult “sell”
to the moms. Our pack goes on at least two one-night family campouts
each year and unfortunately I have to tell a few parents, “No, you can’t
bring the RV!” I think this is because so few people I’ve met have any
Scouting experience (I was attending my first campout with Scouts about
four years ago and asked for a show of hands of who had been in Scouts,
and almost no one raised their hands!). Unfortunately, some of the boys
in my son’s den (Oops, I mean patrol) won’t be going to summer camp
because, as their parents—usually the moms—tell it, “They’re only 11 and
you’re taking them so far away!” or “A whole week’s a looooong time!”
It’s not a money thing; it’s a perception thing. Can this be changed?
(Nigel Andrews, Jersey Shore Council)
The best way to "sell" Mom on summer camp
is to graduate your Webelos II Scouts into a troop by February, or March
at the very, very latest. This way, they can start experiencing weekend
overnights in the spring and early summer, and that way Mom's already
used to the idea of sonny being "out there in the spooky woods" before
summer camp season arrives. Couple that with "New Scout Parents"
nights, where the Scoutmaster and SPL describe to new parents what they
can expect their sons to be doing in the coming several months (like
coming back from a weekend overnight grubby and smelling pretty bad, but
with the biggest grin on his face they've ever seen!). Then, as summer
approaches, hold a "Troop Summer Camp" orientation night for ALL parents
(paying special attention to getting the "new" parents there, even if
they haven't expressed the intention of sending their sons). Invite an
OA representative to come and "pitch" summer camp. Get a video or slide
presentation on your camp from your council service center, and show
it. Have some articulate and animated Scouts from your own troop attend
the meeting and describe the great times they had last year. As for
"Oh, it's soooo faaaar awaaaaay," NONSENSE! Your council camp is in the
Barnegat area, for golly sake, and I'd be hard-pressed to believe that
your parents consider that on the other side of the planet! The bottom
line is simply this: Any troop that doesn't get 100% of its Scouts to
summer camp, by hook or crook, is short-changing the boys in their care.
Hello Andy,
I'm a parent of a Webelos Scout who is
soon to “cross over.” We’ve bought his Boy Scout gear and we’re trying
to finish up with placing the necessary patches. My son earned the "God
and Family" as a Cub award and received the purple-and-silver square
knot. Which brings me to my question. Exactly where on the uniform does
this go? I was told it can be worn on the Boy Scout uniform, but I want
to make sure we do this correctly. Can you please help? (Mike Cline)
That square knot patch is
absolutely "legal" on a Boy Scout uniform. Sew it CENTERED, immediately
above the flap of the LEFT pocket of his Scout shirt.
Dear Andy,
Our district is doing a patch
for the upcoming camporee—we give the
Scouts who attend a patch. It has several things on it, the
fleur-de-lis, an ax, an OA sign, and the Olympic rings. Is there some
type of law that say's we'll be in trouble for using the Olympic
rings? Help, Andy! (Owen Searcy, Coosa, GA)
The Olympic Rings are copyrighted
and you would need to obtain from the OOC specific clearance for their
use. The patch embroiderer will tell you this (or they should!) when
you bring your design to them. However, the word, "OLYMPICS," can't be
copyrighted, and isn't. So, your work-around might be to call the
Camporee itself the “2007 District XXX Olympic Camporee,” or “Camporee
Olympics,” or “Scout Olympics,” or something else along those lines.
Or, you could arrange five overlapping FDLs (outline only) in five
different colors… (Are you getting me here?)
Dear Andy,
Does
the BSA require fingerprint checks for adult volunteers, and, if not,
why not? I understand that the submission of the adult volunteer
application authorizes a criminal background check, but anyone can make
up information on their application. Fingerprints taken by local law
enforcement would make it very difficult for those who prey on children
to be a part of the BSA. If the BSA does not, they should reconsider
that policy. This is a “headline just waiting to happen.” (Dennis J
Vega, SGT OPD-NJ, Ret., ACM, Pack 98, AZ)
The BSA doesn't require fingerprint
checks...yet. Your point is well-taken. I'll bet that probably not too
far down the road we'll see this added.
Dear Andy,
I've been an ASM for about a half-dozen
years and I’ve just signed on with a start-up Venturing Crew as
an Assistant Advisor. (I’m working on getting trained!) The crew as
opted to wear the traditional Venturing uniform on dress occasions, but
the question has arisen as to should the young men who have earned the
rank of Eagle Scout, and are between the ages of 18-21, wear their Eagle
badge or their Eagle square knot on the uniform, since they’re
considered adults (and ASMs in the Boy Scout troop to which they still
belong!) but the Venturing program considers them “youth”? (Jim Dumond,
Northeast Georgia Council, GA)
Venturers age 18 and over are
considered...Venturers. And they're also legally adults; not "youth."
So if they've earned Eagle rank, they'd wear the square knot; not the
oval Eagle rank badge. While it's perfectly "legal" for a Venturer
under age 18 to wear their highest Boy Scout rank badge they've earned
on their left uniform pocket, it's not uncommon for even those Venturers
to opt for the square knot, because it's consistent with the Venturing
awards (Ranger, Gold, Silver, Quest, Trust, etc.), none of which is
designed to go on the pocket itself (Yes, to "split hairs," the "RANGER"
pin is worn on the pocket flap).
Thanks for clearing
that up; however, you raise another question… You said, "While it's
perfectly ‘legal’ for a
Venturer under age 18
to wear their highest Boy Scout rank badge
they've earned on their left uniform pocket,
it's not uncommon for
even those Venturers to opt for the square knot,
because it's consistent with the Venturing awards (Ranger, Gold, Silver,
Quest, Trust, etc.)." Am I mistaken, or is the square knot representing
Eagle Rank not reserved
only
for adults? And where in BSA policy would I find that information? (Jim
Dumond)
Yes, the Eagle square knot is for adult
wear. However, I'm also giving you a practical approach that some might
wish to opt for. I personally consider a, let’s say, 16 year-old
Venturer wearing an Eagle square knot (instead of the oval badge) so
that he looks more like his slightly older peers an infraction of little
consequence. While I wouldn't suggest this to him, if he asked if he
could do it, I'd probably turn a sympathetic eye rather than preaching
at him like a "Patch Policeman"! But, hey, that’s me.
Dear Andy,
Our Scoutmaster recently told a Scout in
our troop that he’s not permitted to wear the red wool jacket (called
the Jac-Shirt in the Boy Scout catalog), because this was a “Scoutmaster
Jacket.” The Scout was clearly disappointed, especially because his
grandfather had just given him the jacket as a birthday gift. I clearly
remember my brothers wearing this jacket when they were Scouts in the
70’s and it having been available in boy sizes (i.e., not just men’s).
A look on the Internet has shown me that the jacket has also been
referred to as “Boy Scout Jacket,” “Philmont Jacket,” and “patch
jacket.” I also saw that there seems to be quite the debate as to what
may be displayed on the jacket. (Not a problem in this case since the
Scout had no insignia, patches, etc. on it.) I also can’t seem to
locate an official “BSA Uniform Guide” online to identify any of the
citations regarding the jacket. What’s the true story here? (T.C., MC,
Occoneechee Council)
The "true story" is that that Scoutmaster's
dishing out one big load of horsepucky! That's absolutely NOT a
"Scoutmaster's Jacket," and he's got one heck of a nerve discouraging a
Scout from wearing the absolutely MOST appropriate outerwear a Boy Scout
can wear! The Jac-Shirt is a BSA standard. It's been around for over
50 years. In the 2005 BSA Insignia Guide, the Jac-Shirt is referred to
on pages 4, 20, 36, 53, and 54. It is ALWAYS referred to as being
appropriate for both youth and adults. Tell that young man to wear his
grandfather's gift with pride. And tell that misguided Scoutmaster to
go fly a kite!
Hello Andy,
Some years ago I had a copy of “Deliver
The Promise” (BSA No. 18-251) and I’m wondering if this was still
available and where I might get it. (Michael Kerrigan, SM, Troop 50,
Revolutionary Trails Council)
Try calling the National supply division,
at 1-800-323-0736.
Dear Andy,
Someone just told me that there are now
two Eagle Mentor pins: one for adults and one for youth. I can't find
any info on this. Is it true? (Chuck Jewell, CC & Huddle Commissioner,
Alamo Area Council, TX)
Here's what
www.scoutstuff.org has to say: “Eagle
Mentor's pin, made of zinc alloy with smooth polished antique finish.
For any non-parent who was instrumental in the youth earning his Eagle
rank. Measures 16 mm x 20 mm; thickness of 2 mm. $3.59.”
You might want to check further
with your local Scout Shop, to see if there's been a change.
Dear Andy,
I’m a new Senior Patrol Leader for my
Troop and I have a question regarding the Junior Assistant Scoutmaster (JASM)
position. Our Scoutmaster's son has been given the position of JASM by
his father, without talking to anybody about this. I disagree with this
Scout being in this position. I’d wanted him to be our Troop
Instructor. At a recent Patrol Leaders Council, my ASPL and I were taken
into a separate room by our Scoutmaster and three of his ASMs and told
that this is how it would be and that we should just agree with this
JASM decision because it’s going to happen anyway. I didn’t feel
comfortable with the way this was done. In fact, I felt like my ASPL
and I were being "bullied" into agreeing with our Scoutmaster's
decision. No one in our troop has ever challenged anything our
Scoutmaster has told us to do, and this is really difficult for me since
I’m also friends with his son at school, too. This Scout is already 16
years old, so he does meet that requirement, but there was no vote or
prior discussion at Patrol Leaders Council about having him be JASM. We
already have a JASM in the troop and while I do realize that we can have
more than one in that position, I still need to fill the Troop
Instructor position, and he was the ideal candidate. From what I’ve
read, a JASM reports only to and takes direction from the Scoutmaster
(his father) and no one else in the troop. What are the specifics
regarding a JASM participating or having voting rights at Patrol Leaders
Council? Is that by invitation from the SPL, or can the Scoutmaster
override any decision made by the SPL? Are there any rules that state
that the Scoutmaster must be in attendance at a Patrol Leaders Council
meeting?
In our troop, we emphasize "Scout-Lead,"
and while I have a lot of respect for my Scoutmaster and all he does for
our troop, I don't want to be made a pushover.
I want to do the best I can in this new
position so that I can lead my troop in a positive direction during my
term. Any suggestions would be great. (SPL, Northern New Jersey
Council)
OK, let's see if I can
shed some light on this for you... Everything here has been sourced from
the
SCOUTMASTER
HANDBOOK (go get yourself one at
your local Scout Shop, so you can "Be Prepared"):
The JASM is appointed by the SPL (not
by the Scoutmaster); however, this is done with the advice and
consent of the Scoutmaster. A Scout is selected by the SPL for the JASM
position based on being at least 16 years old and being an outstanding
leader. The SM can "veto" the SPL's recommendation, but the SM does NOT
have appointing power.
Upon selection by the SPL, the JASM
reports directly to the SM. There can be more than on JASM in a Troop,
just as there can be more than one Troop Guide or Instructor.
The Patrol Leaders Council (PLC) is made up
of the SPL and ASPL (if any), the Patrol Leaders (but not APLs),
and the Troop Guide ONLY if he is the TG for a New-Scout patrol. The
Scoutmaster attends PLC meetings as a coach and informational source;
he has no decision-making role; not even to "veto." That's it.
Other youth leaders, such as QM, Scribe, Instructor, or JASM, do NOT
attend the PLC. PLC meetings are also not attended by any Assistant
Scoutmasters, except as a substitute in the event that the SM is unable
to attend. Same with APLs: They only attend a PLC meeting if their PL
can't. The Troop Committee Chair and/or committee members don't attend
PLC meetings, either. This is standard Troop operation and any
deviation from this is not in accordance with BSA procedures, policies,
or program.
The ideal solution to at least part of the mess your Troop is in is for
the JASM to relinquish his position and become a Troop Instructor,
instead. But it would probably be up to you to find a way to convince
him to do this. If he thinks he's taking a "lesser" position, you're
outa luck! So the diplomatic thing to do might be to "encourage" him to
"request" of his Scoutmaster dad that he be permitted to instruct, and
to take guidance on this from you. This will depend on the kind of
friendship the two of you have, and also what his dad's "vision" for his
son is.
What troubles me most of all, though, is that maybe your Scoutmaster
actually thinks that he's "Master of the Scouts"! He's not, of course.
The Scoutmaster doesn't run the Troop, and he doesn't "give orders" to
the SPL (or anyone else), except in dire emergencies. On a day-to-day
basis, he's the SPL's and the PLC's coach and advisor, while the SPL and
the PLC run the troop meetings and plan and carry out the Troop's yearly
program of events.
Any time a Scoutmaster "takes charge" of a Troop, he's denying the
Scouts in it the full measure of the Scouting program (for the actual
BSA quote on this, go to page 12 of the SCOUTMASTER HANDBOOK,
under "The Boy-Led Troop").
I'm hoping that your Committee Chair will see the light of day here, and
will provide some wise counsel to the Scoutmaster
(Yes, the SM does "report" to the Committee and its Chair).
Hey Andy!
I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this column. I've
been a Scoutmaster for about three years and find your insights
invaluable. I've read your responses about Scoutmaster-assigned
leadership projects and have a few questions as it pertains to one of my
Scouts…
Out Troop has a First
Class rank Scout who will be 17 in about five weeks. He has three merit
badges and a leadership position left for Star. He’s been a member of
the Troop since he crossed over from Cub Scouts. He progressed to First
Class in about 16 months, but has been at that rank ever since. Once I
became Scoutmaster, I talked with him about his goals, both personal and
Scouting, and his response as far as Scouting goes was that he just
wanted to have a good time and wasn't interested in advancement. We
have had that conversation several times over the past three years.
He’s attended about half of the Troop meetings and five outings in the
past three years as well.
Here’s my challenge:
This Scout approached me a couple of weeks ago and said he wants to try
to achieve Eagle. I worked through the timeline with him for required
"active membership" and traditional leadership positions. Needless to
say, there are not enough months on the calendar left to accomplish the
goal using the full leadership terms. The Scout then asked me if maybe
he could do a couple of Scoutmaster-assigned leadership projects to get
around the required amount of time for a leadership position.
So here’s where my
question comes in: What is the intent of the Scoutmaster-Assigned
Leadership Project? This seems to be a grey area. My impression is that
the intent is to serve as an alternative to the leadership position, but
not intended to fast-track someone. I'm afraid that "fast-tracking" a
Scout in this time-period sets a bad precedent for future candidates,
and somehow diminishes the efforts put forth by our current Eagles.
Hopefully you can see I'm trying to do the right thing here, but the
Handbook is pretty vague. (Guy Kriske, SM, Troop 431, Atlanta Area
Council, GA)
The "Scoutmaster-assigned
leadership project" isn't a "loophole," and that Scout's outta time!
Check out the very first requirement for Star, Life, and Eagle, and
there's your defining tenure. No way around those, my friend! Still,
I'd sure encourage him to go for Life rank. He has the time to do it;
now, does he have the motivation?
Advancement is a personal thing.
Some guys make Eagle before their 14th birthday, some give themselves
18th birthday presents, and others are somewhere in the middle. But
most never make Eagle at all, and that's still OK! Read my November
2002 column for more on this subject.
Now, let's take a closer look at
the "assigned leadership project"... I'm guessing it's there just in
case every youth leadership position in a troop is already filled, or
perhaps it’s so that a special need of the troop that doesn't naturally
fit into a standard position might get accomplished. It's not used too
often, but it's sure nice to know it's available, based on the need of
the Scout, or the need of the troop!
Dear Andy,
If a Scout attended the 2005 National
Jamboree, how does that count towards fulfilling the requirements for
Order of the Arrow election? For
example, is it considered a Jamboree considered a long-term camp, but
only six days and five nights counts towards the camping requirement?
Or is it considered a long-term camp with ten days and nine nights
counting? I’m asking because although my son has over 40 camping days
and nights over the past three years, his opportunities for camping were
restricted this year when he was diagnosed with a blood disorder that
causes a severe allergic reaction to
sunlight. So, yes, if the Jamboree
counts, then he could need those days to meet the OA camping
requirement. The OA lodge said they’d
accommodate his disability if
he’s elected; however, I have heard yes and no with regards to
Jamboree camping. (Kelly, Alamo Area
Council, TX)
I'm glad to hear that the OA lodge is going
to take your son’s condition, and the effect it's had in the past year,
into account. Good for them! The camping requirement for OA membership
is: "...have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during
the two-year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must
include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six
consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under
the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of
the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps."
Based on this, camping with a Jamboree
troop in the summer of 2005 would count, and the numerical tally would
be based on the actual number of days and nights "under canvas." (By
the way, it's the troop that decides on eligibility and once elected, a
Scout can't be "un-elected" by the lodge.)
Dear Andy,
I recently had the privilege of being the
professional advisor for our council’s Wood Badge course. When we got
to the “Wood Badge Game Show,” it was chaotic at best trying to
determine which bell, whistle, clank, or whatever came first. Could
maybe an electrical engineer who reads your column send me a circuit
diagram linking eight simple latch circuits so that only one patrol at a
time can ring? I’m looking for something like a Pinewood Derby finish
line that’s push-button operated. Thanks! (Dave Rice, Senior District
Executive, Illowa Council, IA)
Hi Andy,
For that game, we use fly swatters
with the patrol emblems on them. Works great! (Charles Eichelberger,
WE4-57-06 Staff)
Anyone else have any
solutions to the “game show” problem?
Dear Andy,
I'm a Scout who has become a
frequent visitor to your website because I enjoy reading all the
Scouting questions and answers. After reading your advice over and over
again, it helped me to slowly start to realize I was a member of a troop
that was being run and led by adults and the Scouts weren't being
allowed or trained to do anything they should be doing. Reading your
advice to others in Scouting helped me by giving me something to compare
my own troop against, because before reading your columns I’d just taken
things for granted and trusted that our leaders knew what they were
doing and were doing things the right way.
I just wanted you to know the
hardest part for me has been the emotional part of making the decision
to leave my friends, my patrol, and my troop even though troop stopped
being fun a long time ago and despite the fact that I no longer looked
forward to attending meetings or outings because of a small group of
adult leaders who manipulated and controlled everything and didn't let
us Scouts do what we were supposed to be doing.
Thanks for giving me the courage to
make a very hard decision. If there are any other Scouts out there in
troops as messed up as mine, I hope they’ll take your advice to heart
and, as you say, "vote with their feet." Scouts all think all other
troops are the same as the one they’re in. After visiting some other
troops around town, I learned that that isn't true. My dad told me you
can only learn so much about a troop at a weekly meeting and to really
understand what a troop is like you need to go out into the woods with
them. So last month I went camping with this one troop I really liked
and actually had fun in Scouting for the first time in a long time.
Their campout was totally different from anything I’d experienced before
in Scouts. None of the adults ordered us around, and the Scouts actually
made all of the decisions. We accomplished what we had chosen and I
actually went all weekend without once hearing a leader yelling or
screaming at a Scout. That alone totally convinced me: I'm leaving and
joining the other troop! Thank You Andy! (S.Y. [Sorry, my dad says I
can't give out my name on the Internet])
Yup, your Dad's right
about your name, and I'm delighted to see that you respected his
admonition. I'm even more delighted to learn that you're once again
having fun in Scouting, because that's how it's supposed to be! I'm
sure it was a tough decision and a wrenching experience to make the move
that you did, but you did the right thing! It's also not "against the
law" to invite a friend or two of yours from your former troop to join
you on your new troop's next camp-out, as your guest and your friend.
Scouting, as you've
figured out (and as your former troop's adult leaders were actually
preventing you from learning), is about YOU; not "them." And
it's about having fun while accomplishing some good stuff for yourself.
Here's what Baden-Powell himself said, about advancement, for instance:
"Advancement is like a suntan—It's something that happens naturally
while you're having fun in the outdoors."
Keep having fun, and
enjoying Scouting and your new Scouting friends!
Happy Scouting!
Andy
Got a question?
Have an idea? Found something that works? Send it to me at
AskAndyBSA@yahoo.com.
(Please include your Council name
or your town & state)
(February 2007 –
Copyright © 2007 Andy McCommish)
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